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Post by jeffu on Mar 2, 2015 8:59:51 GMT 10
No body wants to listen. 
Seems as though everyone wants advice, everyone wants to know how to make their sluice/highbanker save more gold, everyone listens but no-one hears.
Once again I have spent my day helping others who don’t want to listen.
I can never make it clear enough that it simply doesn’t matter what type of riffling or matting is used in a sluice, they will all retain gold. The amount that’s retained is highly dependant on the feed rate and water flow. If you are using “bread crate” style riffles your gold retention is highly reliant on how much dirt you feed and even more so by the water flow. Incorrect feed and the crate clogs up very quickly, incorrect water flow and you either have the same situation or total scouring.
Why people insist on making their sluices using door mats, bread crates and other strange types of riffle has got me stumped when for virtually for no more cost they can be setup with modified Clarkson riffles. Properly setup with the correct water flow, one man digging won’t be able to over feed it. It becomes quite clear, that in an area that has 1 gram of gold per cubic meter, the more gravel you feed the more gold you get, PROVIDING your sluice can handle high feed volumes.
Last weekend I tried in total vain to convince someone that they might as well be shovelling the dirt back into the creek. His highbanker had bread crate style riffles and was completely packed, any gold he had in the sluice would have been deposited in the first 20 minutes to half hour of digging. After 3 hours of shovelling he cleaned up, not surprising at all, he had less than 0.1 gram. To prove my point I asked if I could setup my small HB and process his tailings. One hour of running the tailings gave me 0.25grams. And yet he still couldn’t or wouldn’t see my point. He continued to over feed his HB and continued pack his riffles.
I think the days of trying to help others is rapidly coming to an end.
Grumpy Jeff
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Post by cronicbadger on Mar 2, 2015 10:51:07 GMT 10
People are often resistant to new ideas and ways. It takes time, but they eventually come around when they understand the benefits.
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Post by Rowdy on Mar 2, 2015 14:42:51 GMT 10
I've done a google search on the clarkson riffle system and it hasn't come up with a clear picture of the system. I'm a little confused about exactly what it is. In the mean time I guess I'll have to stick with my door mats and bread crate riffles.lol
Jeffu if you have posted a picture of it previously it must have slipped past me.
Rowdy
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Post by labrador on Mar 2, 2015 17:26:21 GMT 10
Hi Jeffu,
I am over the moon with your font, it is the first thing I have been able to read with out having to have my nose on the screen for the past 10 years.
Do not be grumpy just load up on the lost gold and gems, the less they listen the better for them who do.
So keep that pump full throttle and shovel it in, a gram in the hand is better than listening to some on trying to help you.
Lab
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Post by jeffu on Mar 2, 2015 18:14:21 GMT 10
Hi Rowdy.
The Clarkson reports (2 of them) were posted on this forum some time ago. I think Ric may have put the first one up.
There is also some research notes by Chris Jacobson of Heckler Fabrication that is probably more relevant to the small scale/one man operated HB that backs up Clarkson.
Jeff
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Post by phillip on Mar 2, 2015 19:17:41 GMT 10
gday cranky fella ive never heard of clarkson riffles but ive got an open mind some people dont im very much still learning mine at the moment and thats four highbankers i have made have honycomb rubber door mats under riffles doesnt go to bad and i have to watch how much i put through but saying that im still a novice and any new system or idea is much appreciated for guys like me that are learning not all of us have a 1 way or the highway idea stuck in our heads anything that can benefit is good cheers mate
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Post by Andy on Mar 3, 2015 7:23:47 GMT 10
I've found the rubber door mat works well for me. I don't feed my highbanker with wash quickly because my back injury won't allow it, so slow & steady gets the job done. Even if you are using proper riffles but have your HB set up wrong or use too big a pump for it's size you will lose gold, I have seen that for myself.
I once had a bloke tell me I should be running my 1 1/2" pump at full throttle because it wasn't flowing enough water through the sluice. What a load of rubbish! I run that pump just above idle & have more than enough water flow. If I ran the pump full on with the small highbanker, I know I would be losing a lot more than the 3 or 4 tiny bits I lose now.
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Post by jeffu on Mar 3, 2015 9:27:52 GMT 10
Hi Andy.
Couldn't agree more. You have a system that works for well you because you know how to operate it.
My problem is with those that don't seem to understand how and why a properly setup sluice works. Too many times I've seen people shovelling dirt into the hopper like its rapidly going out of fashion. They don't realise that an overfed and packed riffle system WILL loose gold. If you want to shovel dirt at 2, 3 or more shovels a minute then build your system to suit that load. Bread crate, door mat and other similar style of riffling simply won't work under those conditions.
If you are happy with feeding your sluice at a slow pace then any style of riffles work. Sorry, but I'm not built that way, I go out to shovel as much dirt as I can, I don't dig for 8 hours to put half the gold back in the creek. I've had 3 people continuously feeding my HB and still couldn't manage to over feed it.
It's faster and easier for me to process someone else's tailings and get more gold than they did, all the large rocks are already removed and the gravel is loose, much easier digging.
Maybe I should just shut-up, and get on with my way of digging.
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Post by Ric on Mar 3, 2015 14:27:06 GMT 10
The reports are posted, I think over amongst the files on the Yahoo page. I think they may also be posted in the Maps and Reports section on this site or it might just be a link.
The clarkson riffles from memory are 90 deg angle iron but offset from level (I think), been a while since I read it.
I use traditional Hungarian riffles shape but not necessarily in a formal "ladder"with either round hole or diamond (large size) rubber mats under. I also use a simple piece of carpet under them sometimes.
If I recall the Clarkson riffles are originally tested with use in large scale commercial operations in mind.
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Post by jeffu on Mar 3, 2015 17:13:38 GMT 10
Hi Ric.
The Clarkson reports are extremely familiar to me. The research done by Clarkson and Poling was a large part of my Masters. I could probably recite the reports word for word.
Although the research was aimed at large scale commercial alluvial operations, most the research tests was carried out on purpose built sluices no larger than what most of us normal prospectors use. One side of the sluices was made from acrylic so that high speed cameras could capture the workings of the vortex.
Prompted by, and based on the Clarkson research, Chris Jacobson, owner of Heckler Fabrication (makers of probably the best small scale highbankers available), conducted his own extensive tests. His final decision was that all the modifications and conclusions made by Clarkson had a direct bearing on small scale one man operations.
These modified riffles and how they operate do make a noticeable difference to the amount of gravels one man can process. Quite obviously, if you have no ambition to shovel a couple of meters of dirt, then modifying your HB is pointless.
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Post by Flying Scott on Mar 3, 2015 21:18:35 GMT 10
Grumpy Jeff, I totally agree with you
Maybe time for the old timer to put in 50 cents worth again.
Get back to nature, mimic the natural riffles on the rock bar. If the bar has cracks then it doesn't catch much heavy metal.
on the other hand if the bar has forward facing overhang it will retain a high % of gold in the vortex, the trick is to get a good vortex behind your riffles. The volume of water going down your sluice tray isn't that important, its the velocity that's important, this can be adjusted by raising or lowering the angle of your sluice. A carpet under the riffles is absolutely a must have, it will catch the fine gold.
I made all my sluices, including the riffles. The riffles have to be set at about 60 deg. with the top folded forward to resemble an r
Riffles need to be made from 30 to 40 mm x 15 gauge.
I will try draw a sketch and post here
Flying Scott.
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Post by mushmouse on Mar 3, 2015 23:44:33 GMT 10
I have some carpet in my HB that is over 30 years old and still going strong. I usually dry it out and brush it after a clean-up as I will still get a good collection of gold that releases when the dry fibres open up. I use the angled L shape ladder riffle on top that creates a decent enough vortex to deal with the gold / stream heavies battle.
When using the river sluice - if I can see the gold 'dancing on the spot' on the slip plate, I'm pretty happy with its operation. Rubber hole door mat in the tray. No carpet.
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Post by labrador on Mar 4, 2015 20:19:00 GMT 10
I have a Angus McKirk river sluice, that has no carpet, if any one is familiar with them, will know there molded plastic and I really don't know how much fine gold it loses, but looking at what is being said in the above, I am getting concerned to whether or not I should be using some thing with carpet
Having said that, my sluice dose trap very fine gold.
Dose any one have any comments on these sluices
Lab
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Post by Flying Scott on Mar 4, 2015 20:44:06 GMT 10
Labrador, sink a bucket or simular into the ground at tail of your sluice.
Run all the tailings into the bucket. The bucket will overflow but the finest of gold will go to the bottom.
You can check the results by putting the bucket into a larger tub. I doubt if "any" gold has gone into it.
Flying Scott
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Post by lonewolf on Mar 4, 2015 23:27:37 GMT 10
[G'Day jeffu you can lead a horse to water but you can't make the bloody thing drink cheers lonewolf.font size="2"][/font]
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