Post by Admin on Sept 6, 2008 19:29:18 GMT 10
From: ureug1 (Original Message) Sent: 22/04/2008 9:41 PM
I have posted 2 pics of a small lump of metal I found in the creek at Walhalla (near home) while doing a bit of panning. It looks like a bit of dag or a slug ..... but I wouldn't call it a nugget!! Would you? It weighed just under 2 grams when found. Most of the gold I have found there is dirty outside due to mercury which is common and often contaminates the alluvium and most gold there. I thought I better check this slug out before giving it the flick.
So I asked friend who works in lab to throw it into some nitric. If it was bronze or brass it would have disappeared in a flash of brown fumes. Well it didn't, it barely was touched and test show hardly any weight loss, some (trace) copper colouration in solution and silver in solution. Later chemical tests he did confirmed there was considerable gold. The 2 pics show how it looked when it was found. It is now a golden yellow after the acid clean-up.
It may be a bit of old jewellery, a gold tooth (heaven forbid!), a strange shaped but natural gold nugget , but somehow I think it is of man made origins being found close to town too. It has a round cylindrical shape at one end. I will try and do an sg (density) test when I get it back.
Any ideas or thoughts on what it is or could have been?
Thanks Eugene
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From: White_Eagle653 Sent: 23/04/2008 12:15 AM
EugeneM8
just have a look at that shape, it's got nothing to do with a tooth of any form, could you imagine someone running around with a fang like that?
I tend to believe it is just a freak of nature.
Cheers Hans
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From: pickenshovel Sent: 23/04/2008 12:56 AM
it looks like a sheeps head ( may be i just see that cause im a kiwi ) but it does have eyes and a nose ,
looks like something you would find after a house fire ( or miners cabin fire )
i recon u should put a chain on it if its gold , its pritty cool.
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From: Bbbungy2 Sent: 23/04/2008 6:29 AM
Hi Eugene.
Have you found the rest of the Chinaman yet? Looks interesting.
Regards.
Geoff/bbungy2.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: reefminer Sent: 23/04/2008 6:51 AM
Hi Eugene, It looks a bit like a sprue from the top of a casting. Possibly some gold which was melted and poured into a mold or maybe some gold that has been melted to look like a nugget. This would account for the round shape you describe. From the pics it appears to have a fair bit of pitting which would be the result of the removal of copper and silver by nitric. It was not uncommon for gold to be mixed with other metals during the gold rush era and then passed off as pure. Interesting!!
Cheers,
Darren
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From: Banjo520 Sent: 23/04/2008 6:58 AM
Eugene.
Mate looking at the sample I would say what you have found is the end result of a bit of smelting done quite some years previous. Looking at the green corrosive on the nugget which reminds me of the corrosive you get on the old copper coins when you find them. So at a guess I would say the person who smelted the gold mixed a bit of copper in the brew as well maybe to get the weight up? James
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From: ureug1 Sent: 23/04/2008 9:03 AM
Thanks diggers, appreciate your comments and ideas.
Hans it was the cylindrical shape of one end that I thought may have been for a purpose eg a post for a tooth. (dentistry would have been rudimentary in those days.) I was looking at all possibilities. Gold teeth were are popular with immigrants, the size looked right and the post at one end may have served a function eg holding it in place. I was working ina creek not digging in a cemetery Geoff and I'm not sure if Chinese were active in the Walhalla area. But I have heard they sent gold back to China with bodies returned home for burial.
A house fire melting a piece of jewelery is a possibility, as are the other ideas. I like Darren and James idea best of a dag or bit from gold smelting. A lots of smelting was done in town and many tons of gold were mined there,
The photos shown are as I found it, ie before it was given the acid test treatment Darren. James, that verdigris (green copper coating) was there and I thought that proved it was brass or bronze. The smelting idea is what I thought too Darren but haven't thought they would have added copper to make the gold go further. I am keen to see what it looks like now it has been cleaned in acid. Will post another photo later when I get it back.
Thank you all for your creative ideas. Eugene
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From: Banjo520 Sent: 23/04/2008 5:54 PM
Eugene mate did you run your detector over the area? James
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From: reefminer Sent: 23/04/2008 6:01 PM
Eugene, the Chinese and others were well known for their attempts to make their gold go further by adding copper. It would also make the gold look richer especially if there is a high natural silver content with the gold. I found a lot of gold around the Walhalla area some years ago and it contained up to 20% silver and a bit of copper thrown in. Good luck with the testing of this bit of stuff.
Darren
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From: ureug1 Sent: 23/04/2008 6:38 PM
Hi Darren:
This is what that nugget (my friend now calls a "slugget") looks like against some Goulburn River alluvial gold. The shape is largely intact if you compare it against teh original as found bit. This is after hot nitric treatment! This would have removed surface mercury, copper and silver You can see how gold-like it is now. Interesting comments you make about the nature of gold from this area and what the Chinese were prone to doing. Thanks for that perspective mate. If I find out any more will share the info with you.
Eugene
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From: ureug1 Sent: 23/04/2008 6:40 PM
James,
No I didn't, the area was full of iron rubbish (iron bolts nails etc) as it was on a old road / bridge crossing of the creek near town. There could be more goodies there. Eugene
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From: ureug1 Sent: 23/04/2008 6:42 PM
Woops, forgot to attach the picture. Here is what it looks like now. Compare it to the original as found pic above. I like the new look!!
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From: Steve_B Sent: 23/04/2008 6:51 PM
Hi Eugene,
It looks similar in colour to the last ring I made. For that ring I mixed 75% 24ct gold and 25% copper. Have you measured the specific gravity yet?
Cheers,
Steve
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From: Banjo520 Sent: 23/04/2008 8:03 PM
Eugene, looks like a lot of copper in that slug! Perhaps that was why it was in the creek? Mate if I were you I would take the time and detect the area. Yer I know but digging the rubbish may pay off. James
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From: ureug1 Sent: 23/04/2008 10:08 PM
Steve, no I haven't got it back yet. It is still with my friend who did the tests in the city. I should weigh it in air and in water and see what the difference is eh?
But I was with a friend tonite who teaches & makes jewellery so asked him if there is a simple test for different gold purities (9, 12, 18, 22 ct etc) He said "yes, easily done". He takes a streak to a stone from the alloy and then applies acids of increasing strength to the streak until it dissolves (disapears)/ From that one can tell quickly and easily the gold content. (The alloy with the highest gold content is most resistant to the acid.) Will let you know when I get it tested what it comes out to be.
Yes, Jim, I should return and look over that spot some more or do some more panning there eh?
It the first "slugget" I have found in a creek. Is it big enough to be a clunker Mrs Fly?
Eugene
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From: Steve_B Sent: 23/04/2008 10:21 PM
Hi Eugene,
The way I measure SG is as follows:
Weigh the sample on a digital scale (I have 2, one goes up to 250g in .1g increments and the other to 10g in 1mg increments).
Take the sample off and put a small plastic container on, with enough water in to easily cover the sample. Press the zero or tare button on the scale.
When the scale has zeroed i lower the sample carefully into the water and note the reading.
Divide the weight in air by the weight in water.
It's not completely accurate but close enough for most jobs.
If the sample is of a reasonable size I use very thin fishing line to suspend it (trout tippet material is ideal). If it is a small sample I take a length of hair and put a tiny spot of superglue on the one end and glue it to the sample.
Cheers,
Steve
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Steve_B Sent: 23/04/2008 10:28 PM
Just to clarify:
The weight in water mentioned above isn't actually the weight of the sample, it's the weight of the water displaced by the sample.
Steve
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ureug1 Sent: 23/04/2008 11:03 PM
Thanks Steve, will let you know what I find when I have the slugget to play with. My electronic scales are OK to +/- 0.01g , good enough for a rough idea of SG. In any case the amount of silver or copper will remain unknown.
I will advise what the gold streak test shows also if I can get it back it time as my jeweller friend goes to Europe in a couple of weeks.
Eugene
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ureug1 Sent: 5/06/2008 10:37 AM
Hi Steve & others interested in the "slugget" (as my friend called it) or "dag" (as I named it) that I found at Walhalla.
My SG test show it has a SG of about 10 (my friend in the lab found 11) which is consistent with about 9 ct gold. The oxidation on the surface when found confirmed it has base metals which were corroding. Silver and copper were confirmed by the chemical tests done. What it is / was and where it came from will remain a mystery but it looks like it is man made. No test results by the jeweller (gold streak & acid ) until he returns in a month or two.
Steve, my friend Geoff wishes to make something nice for grandchildren from his found alluvial gold. You made a ring from your gold. Maybe you could post your ideas (again, I know you have done so) on alloying alluvial gold, melting, pouring / casting and finishing eg of rings?
Thanks and best wishes, Eugene
I have posted 2 pics of a small lump of metal I found in the creek at Walhalla (near home) while doing a bit of panning. It looks like a bit of dag or a slug ..... but I wouldn't call it a nugget!! Would you? It weighed just under 2 grams when found. Most of the gold I have found there is dirty outside due to mercury which is common and often contaminates the alluvium and most gold there. I thought I better check this slug out before giving it the flick.
So I asked friend who works in lab to throw it into some nitric. If it was bronze or brass it would have disappeared in a flash of brown fumes. Well it didn't, it barely was touched and test show hardly any weight loss, some (trace) copper colouration in solution and silver in solution. Later chemical tests he did confirmed there was considerable gold. The 2 pics show how it looked when it was found. It is now a golden yellow after the acid clean-up.
It may be a bit of old jewellery, a gold tooth (heaven forbid!), a strange shaped but natural gold nugget , but somehow I think it is of man made origins being found close to town too. It has a round cylindrical shape at one end. I will try and do an sg (density) test when I get it back.
Any ideas or thoughts on what it is or could have been?
Thanks Eugene
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: White_Eagle653 Sent: 23/04/2008 12:15 AM
EugeneM8
just have a look at that shape, it's got nothing to do with a tooth of any form, could you imagine someone running around with a fang like that?
I tend to believe it is just a freak of nature.Cheers Hans
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pickenshovel Sent: 23/04/2008 12:56 AM
it looks like a sheeps head ( may be i just see that cause im a kiwi ) but it does have eyes and a nose ,
looks like something you would find after a house fire ( or miners cabin fire )
i recon u should put a chain on it if its gold , its pritty cool.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bbbungy2 Sent: 23/04/2008 6:29 AM
Hi Eugene.
Have you found the rest of the Chinaman yet? Looks interesting.
Regards.
Geoff/bbungy2.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: reefminer Sent: 23/04/2008 6:51 AM
Hi Eugene, It looks a bit like a sprue from the top of a casting. Possibly some gold which was melted and poured into a mold or maybe some gold that has been melted to look like a nugget. This would account for the round shape you describe. From the pics it appears to have a fair bit of pitting which would be the result of the removal of copper and silver by nitric. It was not uncommon for gold to be mixed with other metals during the gold rush era and then passed off as pure. Interesting!!
Cheers,
Darren
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Banjo520 Sent: 23/04/2008 6:58 AM
Eugene.
Mate looking at the sample I would say what you have found is the end result of a bit of smelting done quite some years previous. Looking at the green corrosive on the nugget which reminds me of the corrosive you get on the old copper coins when you find them. So at a guess I would say the person who smelted the gold mixed a bit of copper in the brew as well maybe to get the weight up? James
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ureug1 Sent: 23/04/2008 9:03 AM
Thanks diggers, appreciate your comments and ideas.
Hans it was the cylindrical shape of one end that I thought may have been for a purpose eg a post for a tooth. (dentistry would have been rudimentary in those days.) I was looking at all possibilities. Gold teeth were are popular with immigrants, the size looked right and the post at one end may have served a function eg holding it in place. I was working ina creek not digging in a cemetery Geoff and I'm not sure if Chinese were active in the Walhalla area. But I have heard they sent gold back to China with bodies returned home for burial.
A house fire melting a piece of jewelery is a possibility, as are the other ideas. I like Darren and James idea best of a dag or bit from gold smelting. A lots of smelting was done in town and many tons of gold were mined there,
The photos shown are as I found it, ie before it was given the acid test treatment Darren. James, that verdigris (green copper coating) was there and I thought that proved it was brass or bronze. The smelting idea is what I thought too Darren but haven't thought they would have added copper to make the gold go further. I am keen to see what it looks like now it has been cleaned in acid. Will post another photo later when I get it back.
Thank you all for your creative ideas. Eugene
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Banjo520 Sent: 23/04/2008 5:54 PM
Eugene mate did you run your detector over the area? James
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: reefminer Sent: 23/04/2008 6:01 PM
Eugene, the Chinese and others were well known for their attempts to make their gold go further by adding copper. It would also make the gold look richer especially if there is a high natural silver content with the gold. I found a lot of gold around the Walhalla area some years ago and it contained up to 20% silver and a bit of copper thrown in. Good luck with the testing of this bit of stuff.
Darren
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ureug1 Sent: 23/04/2008 6:38 PM
Hi Darren:
This is what that nugget (my friend now calls a "slugget") looks like against some Goulburn River alluvial gold. The shape is largely intact if you compare it against teh original as found bit. This is after hot nitric treatment! This would have removed surface mercury, copper and silver You can see how gold-like it is now. Interesting comments you make about the nature of gold from this area and what the Chinese were prone to doing. Thanks for that perspective mate. If I find out any more will share the info with you.
Eugene
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ureug1 Sent: 23/04/2008 6:40 PM
James,
No I didn't, the area was full of iron rubbish (iron bolts nails etc) as it was on a old road / bridge crossing of the creek near town. There could be more goodies there. Eugene
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ureug1 Sent: 23/04/2008 6:42 PM
Woops, forgot to attach the picture. Here is what it looks like now. Compare it to the original as found pic above. I like the new look!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Steve_B Sent: 23/04/2008 6:51 PM
Hi Eugene,
It looks similar in colour to the last ring I made. For that ring I mixed 75% 24ct gold and 25% copper. Have you measured the specific gravity yet?
Cheers,
Steve
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Banjo520 Sent: 23/04/2008 8:03 PM
Eugene, looks like a lot of copper in that slug! Perhaps that was why it was in the creek? Mate if I were you I would take the time and detect the area. Yer I know but digging the rubbish may pay off. James
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ureug1 Sent: 23/04/2008 10:08 PM
Steve, no I haven't got it back yet. It is still with my friend who did the tests in the city. I should weigh it in air and in water and see what the difference is eh?
But I was with a friend tonite who teaches & makes jewellery so asked him if there is a simple test for different gold purities (9, 12, 18, 22 ct etc) He said "yes, easily done". He takes a streak to a stone from the alloy and then applies acids of increasing strength to the streak until it dissolves (disapears)/ From that one can tell quickly and easily the gold content. (The alloy with the highest gold content is most resistant to the acid.) Will let you know when I get it tested what it comes out to be.
Yes, Jim, I should return and look over that spot some more or do some more panning there eh?
It the first "slugget" I have found in a creek. Is it big enough to be a clunker Mrs Fly?
Eugene
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Steve_B Sent: 23/04/2008 10:21 PM
Hi Eugene,
The way I measure SG is as follows:
Weigh the sample on a digital scale (I have 2, one goes up to 250g in .1g increments and the other to 10g in 1mg increments).
Take the sample off and put a small plastic container on, with enough water in to easily cover the sample. Press the zero or tare button on the scale.
When the scale has zeroed i lower the sample carefully into the water and note the reading.
Divide the weight in air by the weight in water.
It's not completely accurate but close enough for most jobs.
If the sample is of a reasonable size I use very thin fishing line to suspend it (trout tippet material is ideal). If it is a small sample I take a length of hair and put a tiny spot of superglue on the one end and glue it to the sample.
Cheers,
Steve
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Steve_B Sent: 23/04/2008 10:28 PM
Just to clarify:
The weight in water mentioned above isn't actually the weight of the sample, it's the weight of the water displaced by the sample.
Steve
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ureug1 Sent: 23/04/2008 11:03 PM
Thanks Steve, will let you know what I find when I have the slugget to play with. My electronic scales are OK to +/- 0.01g , good enough for a rough idea of SG. In any case the amount of silver or copper will remain unknown.
I will advise what the gold streak test shows also if I can get it back it time as my jeweller friend goes to Europe in a couple of weeks.
Eugene
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ureug1 Sent: 5/06/2008 10:37 AM
Hi Steve & others interested in the "slugget" (as my friend called it) or "dag" (as I named it) that I found at Walhalla.
My SG test show it has a SG of about 10 (my friend in the lab found 11) which is consistent with about 9 ct gold. The oxidation on the surface when found confirmed it has base metals which were corroding. Silver and copper were confirmed by the chemical tests done. What it is / was and where it came from will remain a mystery but it looks like it is man made. No test results by the jeweller (gold streak & acid ) until he returns in a month or two.
Steve, my friend Geoff wishes to make something nice for grandchildren from his found alluvial gold. You made a ring from your gold. Maybe you could post your ideas (again, I know you have done so) on alloying alluvial gold, melting, pouring / casting and finishing eg of rings?
Thanks and best wishes, Eugene