Website for NAPFA (NSW & ACT take note)

[imadogman]

Please note we now have a website.

With the Christmas break from work, I finally had a chance to publish a website for NAPFA. Here it is:

www.napfa.net

It is work in progress. I am no IT expert and I have done the best I can with my limited skills.

Its main value at the moment is the printable PDF membership form.

In the meantime -- please join up in numbers if you really want this association to achieve results.

To join you will need to print the form out; sign it; and sent it in with money as per the instructions.

Before it is suggested, please note that we have looked at an online form but it is not possible to have an online joining form as it requires a signiture.

The website is still not showing up in google (can take weeks) so the best way to access it is via the link in this email or type it directly into the explorer URL.

We will improve searchability as soon as possible. If you have trouble, just persevere please.

One of the earlier posts asked "what's the membership money for".

I can tell you it is to run the nuts and bolts of an association - like registrations; websites and so on. It is a not for profit association and it has a volunteer committee.

We need NSW and ACT prospectors to get on board. In time we hope to be as successful as the PMAV, but it will take a few years.

In the meantime a united front is much better than none at all.

[carms]

Well im going to be the member that decides to ask some questions........hopefully you can answer these and dont take it as a personal attack, i am one who believes a body such as this is a great idea but i am also one who believes it need to be done properly.
First off, the membership fee's, you say its a non profit organization...are you currently registered as such? are the organizations books fully transparant? for example can anybody access the books at request.
Do the members of the board take any salary or reimbursement? for example does the organization pay for members of the board to attend meetings, pay for parking, food etc out of the members fee's?.
Who elected the initial president, secretary etc etc? or are they just friends of the website creator?
At the first AGM will there be elections to the board for the president on down? or will you be keeping the original board members.

Whats the plan for the initial fee;s that will be paid, what will that go towards...i understand you need money for everything from websites etc etc but is there a set plan for the funds? for example if someone donated $10,000 right now what would that go towards?

Im not trying to play the devils advocate, they are just questions that i have. I think its a great idea & i hope it takes off.

[Ric]

Hi Carms
I think if you read back through Imadogman's posts mainly on the Detecting Site most of your questions will be answered.

An Inaugural AGM is where a new committee is proposed and elected. Any financial member can nominate themselves or another to any position and if you are financial you get to vote.

Yes I am the same as you in that I always ask questions but this has been in development for many months now and looks to have been set up properly.

There have been previous attempts but this time things look to be moving forward with support from the Shooters & Fishers and others.


golddetecting.4umer.net/t11952-join-the-rebellion-today-nsw-act-prospectors-and-fossickers-association-inc

golddetecting.4umer.net/t11270-submission-to-the-hon-robert-brown-mlc-for-the-nsw-shooters-and-fishers-party-for-the-record-in-this-section#103173

golddetecting.4umer.net/spa/Imadogman

[sjy120]

Just had a look at the website.
Well done.

I was reading the daily telegraph today page 20 and there is a story about the closure of crown lands roads that can be sold to the land holder then no public access will be available.

This is something we need to make some noise about.

The govt says it will now identify about 10 % of paper roads that lead to a public waterway, that previously was going to sell off quietly.

[carms]

Ric i understand this may have been talked about before, but being able to answer a couple of quick questions shouldnt be too hard should it? Im sure there are others who arnt up to date with the current situation & would like to know what the ins and outs are.
If i donated 10k today i would really like to know if there was a plan for the money, having to go back through numerous posts and jibberish on this site to work that out...well its just as easy to say yes we have a plan its on the website or something...isnt it?
Im sorry i know you said this has been in plan for many months etc etc but in the end its just a few guys from ONE website getting together and trying to sort this all out...i believe we need something like this but also believe the people running the show should be more then happy to answer any and all questions because in the end these people are supposed to be representing me and my friends and i would really like to know that we are on the same plane before throwing money at something

maybe ill just shut up and let it go and check back in a few years

[Ric]

Hi Carms
Mate I think you took what I said the wrong way.

As I said I am also one who likes to ask questions I call it "Keeping the b...stards honest" But I think most if not all of your concerns had already been addressed in postings both here and on the Detecting website.

What Imadogman described is exactly how most associations, societies and even political parties are initially formed
A group of like minded people (not all from just one website by the way) get together and nut out the core values and concerns.
The usual process is then to hold a formal meeting to elect the inaugural committee.
Following this the group will normally register themselves under the incorporations act with the NSW Dept of Fair Trading (which they have done) Usually when registering the association is registered as a NFP association/organisation and they must also provide details of this to the Aust tax office., set up Bank accounts, which has been done (this in itself requires copies of the minutes of meetings,committee names and addresses and a heap of other formal documentation), draw up a constitution. (basically the Rules).
Remember, they are 'committee members, NOT Board members. There is a huge difference. This is an association, Not a business.

I believe some of your questions had been answered in the opening post

Q Whats the plan for the initial fee;s that will be paid, what will that go towards...

I can tell you it is to run the nuts and bolts of an association - like registrations; websites and so on. It is a not for profit association and it has a volunteer committee.

And a quote from the detecting website

For your information the steering committee that formed at the Goanna Gold Muster in November met several weeks ago on the eve of the 158th anniversary of the Eureka uprising and formed the association there and then. An auspicious date to be sure! We were formally incorporated on December 6th . We appreciate the moral support and encouragement of PMAV and the Hon Robert Brown, MLC of the NSW Shooters and Fishers Party.

The foundation committee is as follows:
President, Stephen Dangaard
Vice President, Damien Alm
Secretary, Ernie M Mollenhauer
Treasurer and Public Officer, John Standfort
General Committee members – Judy Buss, Mike and Joyce Leonard, Corry Vaessen.

Your Q: At the first AGM will there be elections to the board for the president on down? or will you be keeping the original board members.
I believe this should answer the above question.

The incorporations act requires that the first AGM must be held (I Think) within 18 months of the formation or registration of the association.
In the mean time memberships are sort, fundraising is commenced and the association begins to function.
At the First AGM All positions are declared vacant (as would happen at any organizations AGM) and any members can nominate themselves or other people to any of the Vacant committee position and these are then voted for by the financial members.

This current group has also consulted with other similar political groups as well as members of parliament and from what I have read so far looks to be going about the formation of this group in a very proper and professional way and have succeeded in forming a legally incorporated association which no one else has managed to do for many many years.
In these types of associations the usual process is that NO ONE is paid any monies at all, see quote above (It is a not for profit association and it has a volunteer committee ) except possibly the auditor (an auditor is a legal requirement) or any legal adviser, unless they are willing to offer their services gratis.
Often the inaugural committee members expend much of their own money in the setting up of the associations and they are entitled to be reimbursed if they choose to for this outlay once the association is financially able.

A number of people from the AGP (original msn members) as well as members of a number of clubs around NSW started to make an effort to form some type of formal association around 6 or 7 years ago but it did not come to fruition. We were trying to go it alone as prospectors but it is obvious that a small sector of the population like us really need to align ourselves with other similar groups (shooters, fishers, 4wd etc) to have any form of lobbying power and the newly formed association has done this.
They deserve great credit for getting things to this stage.
It's now up to all the other people out there to get behind them and make it a success.

Cheers Ric

[imadogman]

Hi Carms,

I don’t want to use my time in on-line arguments, so will try to be brief. The sort of questions you raise are reasonable. I thank Ric for support so far. He has a good handle it. But given the nature of the posts, I thought I would reply as the current President of Napfa, as I don’t want these questions of integrity to become a distraction from what we are actually doing.

Firstly, we are not a registered company. We are an incorporated association. We have set up the association using the NSW Office of Fair Trading model constitution. There is a link to that under the section “Join the Rebellion” of the website. www.napfa.net We have been working to the recommended approach and understand our responsibilities as outlined in the associations act.

All positions on the committee will be up for grabs at the first AGM. We have not settled exactly when that will be but wanted to make it sooner rather than later so that the new committee is elected by members rather than appointed as occurs at a foundation meeting. AGM is probably April – stay tuned on that.

I have every confidence that the books will be in order. Our Public Officer and Treasurer is a semi-retired accountant and has gone to lengths to set it up properly.

As Ric has indicated, this is a volunteer committee and we receive no payment. I have personally put many hours and $$$ into it but in time hopefully karma will repay me with a nice big nugget when I am in the field! Meanwhile, as is fair, the committee gets reimbursement of direct expenditures – like domains, website hosting, Associations Registration, Australia post box and so on. We are not paying committee members to attend meetings and we travel to meetings at our own expense. In my case that was a return trip to Sydney from Canberra in December. Another committee member drove twice that distance and stumped up for accommodation – at his expense. The drinks (coke and tea only) were brought at own cost by a committee member. We had to hire a small band hall in Sydney as the venue. That was cheap as well.

I can tell you mate, if all I was after was a free lunch and perks then forming an association would not be my plan A.

There is a lot we could do with $10,000 to make members feel that that are part of something important so if you have some spare....! But because we don’t have $10,000 to spend at this stage we don’t have a plan to spend $10,000 and have not wasted time developing a plan just for the heck of it.

We struck a modest start up amount for membership fee but depending on what response we get, and what other benefits we can bring to members, that amount may change next year. That will really be a matter for the new committee. Some of this is suck it and see.

The committee can use the skills of people who can analyse and write so that we can take it up the bureaucrats and pollies to try to get a better deal. So if you want to help then please get in touch. It won’t be easy and it won’t be fast. With your obvious writing skills, you could well be of assistance to us.

The formation of the group is outlined in my posts which Ric has linked to. In short, there was a public meeting as part of the Goanna Gold muster in November. About 50 people from the 200 who were at the muster attended. The meeting went for about an hour with a lot of ideas tossed around and there was clear support from people there. That meeting sought volunteers to form a steering group to explore the how to about forming an association. I did not know personally any of the other steering group members. We followed up that meeting with a meeting at which we formed the association and has since gained the necessary registration for it.

Personally I had not been involved with forming an association before, and some of the paperwork is tiresome, but it has to be done! And we did it. So far so good, but it is only the first step. PMAV in Victoria has been around for 30 years and I hope Napfa will still be here in 30 years too.

Financial security of any organisation is important if it is to survive and prosper. We also want to keep membership fees as low as possible so won’t be wasting any dough either. We have to do it on the cheap, but hopefully not cheaply. I would rather be channeling my energy and thought into our lobbying strategy and tactics than chasing memberships. But we also need memberships in order to be representative.

As Ric indicated things have been tried before and have failed. I am not planning for Napfa to fail and will work hard to see that it achieves what it has set out to do.

But for that to happen people need to have some faith in the committee and the idea of representation and get behind it and advocate for others to get on board and do their bit if they are able to.

Cheers
Stephen.

[destodesperate]

Allow me to introduce myself, as interim secretary of NAPFA steering committee.

In answer to Carms question about what we’d do with a $10 000 donation, MY first choice would be to employ a full time lobbyist to advance our cause so that I could both get the advocacy results that we’d all like and spend my time fossicking instead of lobbying. But that’s only my personal preference.

Carms' concern about financial probity is well justified. Having had the unenviable duty of trying to recover money knocked off from my daughters’ school canteen when the P& C of which I was a committee member came to realise that our tuck shop lady was taking home more than just worries I can assure one and all that I NEVER want to go there again. So NAPFA has a few basic rules already in place. Payments can ONLY be made by cheque, with any 2 signatories to sign and no signatory can be a signatory to a cheque from which they will benefit.

Cheque number 1 was to our Public Officer. Before I signed his re-imbursement cheque I scrutinised, annotated the source (claim) documents with the cheque number, my initials and date. Yes, that included $1.60 for parking when he lodged documents with Fair Trading at Parramatta but considering his time is usually bought at $880/day I know that fossickers are getting a tremendous bargain there, only paying his out of pocket expenses. Other reimbursements included the lodgement fees etc but not travel or frills.
Cheque number 2, which I couldn’t sign because it was made out to me, reimbursed me for the “float” initially deposited to open our bank account, after deducting my $20 membership fee, happily and proudly paid at the time. Hopefully cheque number 3 will be to Imadogman who I know has already shelled out heaps for fossickers and has not yet made a claim for re-imbursement.

As April 6 th or 7th, the Goanna Muster at Mookerawa Waters, just out of Stuart Town, on the edge of Burrendong dam, is the tentative date for the NAPFA AGM I’m looking forward to assisting all and sundry to roll up to form the best committee that can be found. Please forgive me if I appear there with a rolling pin imprint across my brow as that weekend is also a daughter’s 30th birthday.

To date we (NAPFA) have contacted a great many like minded organisations with a view to forming allegiances and to learn from them. My particular hobby horse at this time is the scandalous sell off of Crown Roads with only 28 days allowed for objections to be raised and notifications to only appear in the local papers where those Crown Rds exist.

You can seen the scandalous announcement at:
www.lpma.nsw.gov.au/crown_lands/roads

Ernie Mollenhauer
(ever hopeful that NAPFA will thrive to pursue its primary aim of achieving fairer access for ALL to OUR Crown land.)

[imadogman]

Fellow diggers, panners, sluicers and treasure hunters: This is a great deal.

Fantastic value for $20. Free memberships or free tickets however way you cut it.

Remember, you can join NAPFA regardless of where you live or how often you prospect.

Joining is your way of helping to maintain and improve the rights of Prospectors and Fossickers in NSW especially, but we will also assist interstate campaigns as we are able to.

If you prospect in NSW this is a good chance to help the cause and join NAPFA.

Read up on the deal at

www.napfa.net

Already a member? Don't worry -- if you have already joined we will include you in the draw. But you may want to get some extra tickets or get your other half to join!

NAPFA appreciates the support of Minelab for this promotion.